[Club Chachapoya] and anyone else Alpine Adventure

[Bossspecops]

15 hours ago, jgf said:

 

Which TwinPin is that?  I have the old (2005) Mike Stone aircraft, but that one seems more detailed.

 

It's this one Scottish_Aviation_Twin_Pioneer_fsx.zip but I can't remember where I found it. It was done by Robert Richardson if that's any help?

 

 

[Bossspecops]

My FSX setup has the default mesh currently. I'm not sure I'd change it actually as it 'feels' right to me. 

[jgf]

11 minutes ago, Bossspecops said:

It's this one Scottish_Aviation_Twin_Pioneer_fsx.zip

 

Ah, probably not compatible with FS2004.

[Bossspecops]

Yes, it's an FSX designed model for sure, and it seems it's great demand, but Rob's closed his site down for some reason, and it's not available any more. 

 

I'd imagine that a bit of file swapping between the Mike Stone version and the Rob Richardson version may produce a better FS2004 Twin Pin though.................. 

[chris_eve]

Given the current interest in the Twin Pioneer, I thought you might like to see this picture I took at the local air display back in '98

 

 

[Bossspecops]

That's the one I flew in from Coventry airport, and it's the same one I'm flying here on the Alpine Adventure. 

 

It's using its civvie registration in your pic, but they had permission to use its old RAF serial when I flew in it. An amazing aeroplane. 

[MAD1]

I agree totally Mike, been fun comparing the various screenshots. (I did threaten to use a Cessna 152, but instead used the default FS2002 172). I did think ahead and saved my flight at various points along the route, and did yesterday consider going back to the point I went 'over the top' of the Alps, to Turin (was effectively lost, just trying to following the direct GPS course), and can now see that I could veer left, and follow the valley around the bend, over that lake/dam, and then miss needing to go over 10K'. Might do that revisit this weekend, will only be a short jaunt. (Am just starting my learning journey with the Concorde, learning the instrument panel, did a couple of taxi tests, must study all the stats in the book and the Kneeboard so I'm doing things properly, then in a future Club adventure, MAD1 will 'blow your socks off' and turn up in my British Airways Concorde. Happy days!)

[MAD1]

Great pic chris-eve of the twin-pin. Boy, those forward flap thingy's are huge. So guys (anyone, especially Bosss), perhaps you could say a few words to us novices about how all that gear on the wings makes the twin-pin a VSTOL type aircraft?

[jgf]

The forward slats extend forward and downward, the flaps extend rearward and downward, effectively creating a larger, more curved, wing, thus more lift.

 

The Fieseler Storch, Do-27, and Westland Lysander all incorporated such systems for short field operations;  of the latter one pilot claimed it could hover in a 35mph headwind.

[Melo965]

I managed to find the Rob Richardson Twin Pin (FSX) over at the SOH Combat Flight Center.  Here is the download link:

 

https://sim-outhouse.org/sohforums/resources/scottish-aviation-twin-pioneer.6851/

 

It is only in the RAF livery.  You also need to be a member to download, but it is a free account.

 

[Bossspecops]

WELL done Melo! 

 

I looked everywhere and didn't find it. 

 

Re the Twin Pin's STOL performance. it had a little brother, the SA Pioneer, which only had one Leonides engine but equally extendible flaps and leading edge slats. In the late 50s I lived at RAF Benson where my Dad was based, and it was the main ferry station for the RAF so we had all sorts of aircraft passing through, including some Pioneers.

 

During one Battle of Britain Air Show, which were regular events in those days, there were two Pioneer's on the flight programme, and sure enough they were parked on the ramp at Benson ready to go when their time came. The commentator said 'And now ladies and gentlemen the two Scottish Aviation Pioneers will take off for their display', and they did.............

 

ACROSS the ramp rather than taxi all the way to the runway's end and use up all that concrete! 

 

 

There's quite a good FS2004 model of the single Pioneer by Mike Stone available here, filename spioneer.zip, and I've done a few re-paints for it as well. 

[Bossspecops]

Leg 04

Courchevel LFLJ - Solliere-Sardiere LFKD  

20 nms  Est 12 mins

 

This leg looked to be impossible without climbing really high over the ridges and peaks unless I flew way north through the valleys, which was a pretty long routing, so I decided on the high altitude route. My FST plan indicated I'd not quite need to climb over 10000 ft, but the Twin Pin has a service ceiling of 17000 ft so it should have been OK. The green arrow indicates the highest ridge I'd need to get over.

 

 

Just starting up at Courchevel is a little awe inspiring as that 'runway' falls away from the ramp like a ski jump!

 

 

Taxi-ing out took no time at all, it must be all of 20 yards from ramp to threshold! And when you're there you can't really see the runway either as it's all below the nose. So it was two notches of flap, full throttle and off I went.

 

 

Naturally neither the steepness nor the lack of length of the runway fazed the Twin Pin one bit and she was off before the half way point, but a hefty crosswind from the south drifted me across quite a bit.

 

 

I needed a steep climb, and a sharp turn to starboard of course to head for the first ridge, and the crosswind didn't help much, but I made it OK, and that was Courchevel! I'm not really sure I want to go back either, not unless I'm flying something really STOL capable.

 

 

Starting from Courchevel at 6500 ft I needed to be just over 8000 ft to clear the first ridge on the route, which meant full throttle pretty much the whole way, and I kept one notch of flap down as well to ensure I could climb steeply enough.  Clearing the ridge enabled me to ease back on the throttle to a more sensible setting and to pull the flaps all the way in.

 

 

A little more climbing was needed, but it was more a case of twisting and turning around the peaks and valleys and NOT hitting any snow! There was a lot of it in this area too!

 

 

Eventually reaching that final ridge, and clearing it at 9600 ft meant I could ease off even more on the throttle and start my descent into the valley leading to LFKD, and it was a VERY steep descent too. I'm glad I wasn't heading the other way as I'd have needed some spiral turns to climb up to that max. height.

 

 

The FST plan and the real FSX world didn't seem to match too well and I found myself too far to the north of the valley itself and had to keep on drifting south to avoid bouncing off the cliffs.

 

 

And that situation obtained right up until I got within sight of LFKD too! I was way too far off track to the north and needed to dump some airspeed and altitude rather quickly, but that's  right up the Twin Pin's street, so it was full flap and closed throttle as well as bags of right rudder and aileron to get her lined up properly. I'm glad it was only me on board and not a load of pax as well!

 

 

Rolling out nicely in line with the runway, but a bit further down it's length than I would have liked got me down OK and I came to a halt right by the hangar there.

 

 

Turning onto the tiny ramp I found I was passing a yellow RAF Tiger Moth too! Quite what one of them was doing there I've no idea, but I'm sure it would have made a good tug for the sailplanes parked up there as well.

 

 

The high altitude leg wasn't as bad I'd anticipated, and I only took 10 mins to get to LFKD, some 2 mins shorter than the estimate, but maybe I could have throttled back a bit more on the climbs earlier on.

 

Fuel state on landing was 151 galls, more than enough for the last, longer leg to Alitalia I think.

[taoftedal]

27 minutes ago, Bossspecops said:

I'm not really sure I want to go back either, not unless I'm flying something really STOL capable.

 

Here's one option Bosss ...

 

 

[ScottishMike]

I'm not sure anyone will be interested in this; reminiscences that led me to choose the route of the Alpine Adventure over and above the Alpine scenery and challenging airfields.

An old Duffer's remembrances you can easily skip should you so choose.

As mentioned in the first post I used to live in Italy. Flashback to 1958, Dad has just bought his second new car a Lancia Appia:

(replacing his Fiat 1100) and I'm only a 7 or 8 year old kid living with the family in Milan. He wanted to test it's capability so suggested a one day road trip from Milan to Turin and over the Susa pass (as the Italians call it. Col Du Mont Cenis as the French would have it) into France for lunch and back to Milan in the afternoon. I have always had a passion for maps, even back then, so was the navigator. The first part of the journey from Milan to Turin uneventful on the first Italian Autostrada (freeway US, motorway UK). After Turin the fun starts; winding up the valley to Susa, then up the actual pass skirting Lac Du Mont-Cenis that we have all been seeing from the air:

Then descending the switchbacks on the French side:

It was, I think, one of BosssPecops pictures that showed a rendition of Alpine roads in FSX:

 

The trip has always stuck in my mind. The Lancia performed admirably, we left Milan around 8 am and were back by 9 pm. Still more difficult than flying over as we have all been doing.

Link to a you-tube trip over the Susa pass:

https://www.dangerousroads.org/europe/france/228-mont-cenis-france.html

https://youtu.be/kW3-Z-8rr1E

Fast forward ten years and we are living back in England. The Cheshire school I am at had an exchange scheme with a school in Macon (a few miles north of Lyon.) Love and tragedy hit a seventeen year old as only they can, but I guess that's another story for another day, but it left me with an enduring love for this part of France (and Beaujolais). See what you re-kindled Chris Eve!

Fast forward another twenty years and I'm working for a large IT corporation. They have a large production and R&D centre in Grenoble as well as a smaller R&D unit up the road in Annecy. Many fond memories of trips to Grenoble. But I'll bore you no more with my reminiscences.

[jgf]

22 minutes ago, ScottishMike said:

Then descending the switchbacks on the French side

 

As a fan of race sims also, this brings to mind the French stages of "Richard Burns Rally" - floor the gas for a quarter mile, haul back on the handbrake and slide around a hairpin, floor the gas another quarter mile, and haul back on the handbrake for a hairpin in the opposite direction, repeat til you crest the mountain.

[ScottishMike]

Joining the party in Courchevel the twin Pin's little brother the Scottish Aviation Pioneer, showing of it's flaps and slats:

 

As well as two more elegant Miles products: the Gemini twin

 

and the speed king Miles Falcon:

[Airbasil_1]

allright, let's see then... 

after having a cold one in the Altibar Restaurant, it's time to fly again... 



Question: Will it fly? 



Down the Slope

 

No question... she's off with flying colors... 

 

With her pretty weak Engine, she doesn't climb to well though... 500ft/mnt was the max i got before heading into a stall... also she feels pretty slow for her nickname: "The Speedking...".

Got only a 154 Knots out of her whilst climbing. And about 185 Knots on Cruising Altitude... with a 4 to 5 knt. Tailwind.

Down there - the Valley of Grésivaudan, where I'll be headed to... 

 

Descending into the  Valley

 

following the River - Runway is allready in sight... about three and a half miles out

 

Final Approach into LFLG - Grenoble, Le Versoud

 

 

 

Welcome to Grenoble - Le Versoud

 

For the next Flight from Courchevel to Grenoble, I'd rather take the Spitfire out for a Spin. 
 

[Maverick241969]

Miles airplanes are so beautiful and fun to fly. 
@Airbasil_1 try the Miles Speed Six

[Airbasil_1]

2 hours ago, Maverick241969 said:

Miles airplanes are so beautiful and fun to fly. 
@Airbasil_1 try the Miles Speed Six

Think I'd rather go with something that has a pressurized Cabin, just because I'd like to climb to altitude at least FL230 for some longer flights. Such as Courchevel - Milan Malpensa or even Courchevel to Brussels. And maybe a turboprop would be nice for that. 

[jgf]

2 hours ago, Maverick241969 said:

Miles airplanes are so beautiful and fun to fly

 

The one-off M77 Sparrowjet, first flew just before Christmas, 1953, destroyed in a fire, 1964.

 

Not exactly beautiful, but certainly fun to fly, the Aerovan.

South of KCMH

 

Sitting at Bolton

 

 

 

[MAD1]

Thanks ScottishMike for your memories, not boring or off-topic at all, such reminiscences is what makes this Club interesting to be part of (whereas just the plain 'ol posts re sim aviation I for one can get bored with). Also Bosss, your childhood at Benson is always interesting. Yesterday, I tried doing that little bit around the bend in the valley, over the lake/dam and where all those hairpins are, but was still 'lost', couldn't get to my starting point, tried one 'hunt and peck' valley (thought it was the right one, by looking at the Map and GPS route), it had a road entering it, so thought 'if it's got a road, it must be sufficiently substantial for that road to continue over the pass). But no, I hit (almost literally) that fatal error of entering a rising ground valley, and in the Cessna 172, with full throttle, couldn't climb above the terrain ahead (I had dropped from my last saved position at about 10k ft, down into the vallley for realism), and running out of lateral space to turn around. Oops, gave up my hard-earned altitude and then couldn't climb out again. So I gave up (and switched over to Concorde training sitting at Gate 83 at Brisbane).

[jgf]

31 minutes ago, MAD1 said:

the Cessna 172, with full throttle, couldn't climb above the terrain ahead

 

You've heard of the Cessna that flew into Barringer Crater and couldn't get out, due to steep sides and wind blowing over the top.  They circled over an hour making numerous attempts in different directions to fly out, finally crash landing.  The wreckage is still there.